Hi… I wonder if you would be kind enough to help me with a particular problem ?. I am just getting back into Amateur Radio after an enforced gap of some 25 years , and having to start from scratch with all equipment.
Like so many average households, I have both, limited antenna space coupled with a ‘not so understanding’ XYL ….therefore any antenna must be fairly discreet . I have settled on a Hustler 4 BTV vertical as being the best opportunity. AS in many partnerships there is a lot of give and take and the best alternative for me would be to ground mount the vertical within a garden border , hidden partially by a bush situated approx 3-4 feet away. The situation is compounded by the fact that the garden border has a small 3 inch, boundary wall . I propose to run 3 radials for each band under a lawned area BUT, all will have to be accommodated within a 90 degree quadrant. My query is this :

Because of the small wall, I cannot have the radials running in all directions from directly underneath the base of the antenna. My options would appear to be :-
1 Start the radial runs from approx 18 inches to 2ft away from the base , OR

2 Strap or bind together all radials for the first 18 inches or so before angling them away in different directions.

Which solution do you think would be best ?? ALL advice, suggestion will be most welcome.

Peter Bates G3 XIA.

Peter,

Firstly, welcome back!

With your arrangement the radials don't need to be resonant, so don't worry about cutting them for any particular band.

Here are some general guidelines which should help you arrive at the best solution for your particular situation:

* For a given total length of copper, several short radials is preferable to a few long ones

* Making the radials longer than the vertical is high, brings diminishing returns.

* A large number of radials - or even a copper disc - close in to the base of the vertical makes a significant improvement in ground losses

* Insulated or bare wire can be used. Insulated has the advantage it may last longer underground.

* If your radial system is restricted to something less than a 360 degree arc, don't worry it will still be effective. There will just be slightly less signal in the direction where there are no radials

Hope some of that helps.

73,
Steve G3TXQ

Hi Peter,

I agree with Steve, in his post.
What is your ground like? Light sandy dry soil, rocky, heavy clay, damp or wet? The make up of the ground can have good or bad influence on how good your aerial "ground" can be. The radio ground is in effect making up the other half of your aerial.
I used to have an inverted L, 42 feet in length and only limited space for radials. I just ran out as many wires as possible from the aerial base as possible. Some were short, some long, some fairly straight, others kinked and even bent back on themselves.
I found that the more metal you got down on or just under the soil just made the aerial better.
Cheers, bill, G6BCC

Steve & Bill... MANY thanks for coming back to me so quickly. The point about radials being longer than the 23ft Antenna being non effective, was very interesting and something I was not aware of. Because I cant drape wires over the endge of the small wall, inevtiably the radials will have to start branching out rougjly 12-18 inches from directly underneath the antenna. I gues as with most things in life, we have to accept compromises and work with the best we can. My soil is clay on top of flint rock !!!! living on the South Downs... Im going to have grwat difficulty in driving down a pole sufficiently deep for a support..

One last thing....is it better to connect all the radials together at the point nearest the antenna OR keep them entirely seperate one from another..

Cheers & 73,s to you both..

Peter G3XIA

Hi Peter.
Sounds like your ground will be fairly lossy, ie not very conductive rf wise, so as much metal as you can manage will help.
In an ideal world you would have a nest of 40+ wires running out like the spokes of a wheel all connected to the feeder braid at the aerial base. If the radials are to be a bit remote from the base use a length of copper braid from some old coax or some heavy wire from your feedpoint to the radial connection. You might also try driving a few earth rods into the ground, though I found that they made no difference here as my ground is rock with little soil as such.
Another good source of vertical aerial info can be found on Butternut Antennas website.
happy experimenting!
regards, Bill, G6BCC

ps I remember reading somewhere that radials as short as 1/8th wavelength are almost as effective as resonant lengths.

Dear All..

Many thanks for all those replies....now I am reminded why I took up Amateur Radio in the first place....the help and synergie.. Im picking up a Yaesy FT 450 AT next week .. and cant wait...I think I will try experimenting over all the advice given re the radials and just see what works best...Ill let you all know... In the mewantime... happy hunting & 73,s

Peter G3 XIA